This foto arrived today by USPS mail, and I’m eager to learn details I do not know. I’ll disclose details later. Clearly it’s the East River with stacks where they no longer stand. Just to the left of the Chrysler Building, the skyscraper now known as Met Life still carries the Pan Am name, and that change (on paper) happened in 1981. The tug is Dorothy McAllister; the ship might be
Wavertree, although the foto below shows the current color and head rig. The foto above also seems to have a figurehead, which Wavertree at one point sported although it was not “original equipment.”
Here’s a detail of Dorothy McAllister. Tugboat Enthusiasts Society‘s Carl Wayne database shows a Dorothy McAllister built in 1973 (1971?). Currently a Dorothy works in Charleston.
Here’s a bow detail of the ship, and one
of some crew on the afterdeck of Dorothy.
And my questions are: is this Wavertree? How much clearance would there have been between the top of the masts and underside of the East River bridges? What year would this have been? Would Wavertree have been coming from the Brooklyn Navy Yard at this point?
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March 27, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Redwing
Any chance it could be one of the Mystic Seaport boats coming to a NYC boatyard for work?
March 27, 2009 at 7:22 pm
Redwing
Also, the bowsprits are in two diff’t places, so…
March 28, 2009 at 11:11 am
Soundbounder
In 1976 during Op-Sail, some of the ships came down through the Sound and East River. The very tall ones obviously couldn’t.
Also, what year was South Street Seaport established,,,,late 1970’s???
April 1, 2009 at 3:26 pm
Mike
Will,
I showed your post to a very knowledgeable source at a party this weekend, and he felt that the photo was a fake. A photoshop, actually. I pointed out that you received it by mail, not online, but the fake proclamation stood.
Examples:
* A ship her size would never be deadshipped with all her masts up.
* She could not be towed down the East River in this condition, as she would not fit under the Brooklyn Bridge (as you hinted).
* The harness rig as shown would destroy her headgear upon the first significant wake.
And to the Wavertree comparison, he pointed out that she is clearly a wooden ship.
He passed upon my request that he comment himself, but I am curious enough to forward the quotes. A final point that he made was that the ship itself does not appear to his eye to even be a photograph, but a drawing or painting superimposed.
Is it possible that the photo you were sent was a (pre-photoshop) photoshop, perhaps something that was doctored for use as a postcard?
–Mike
August 8, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Bill
I was a volunteer at The South Street Seaport Museum in the late 1970’s and early 80’s. I worked on the restoration of Wavertree. She was painted in her current scheme at that time. That is the paint scheme used by the Leyland Bros. on their ships. Wavertree was dismasted off Cape Horn in 1910, then used as a warehouse in Chile and then as a sand barge. At that time her fore and main masts and main deck were removed, and her sides cut down to the level of her ‘tween decks. That is the condition she was in when she came to NYC in 1969. The museum was founded sometime around 1966.
February 13, 2013 at 12:19 am
Joe
I agree with Mike! Definately a photoshop job, That is a deep sea motor ship towing rig also, the bow wave is all wrong, note how far forward of the forefoot it is. When you rig a tall ship, all standing, for towing you use a chain bridle from the main chains, strike the dolphin striker and rig preventers on the bridle thru the forefoot wire eye. We have moved Eagle Danmark and Christian Radach at Norfolk several times and escorted the Deutchland in Bremerhaven several times. (Army Tugs)
April 21, 2015 at 4:13 am
tugster
I’m moving info from comments made in response to “Asphalt Sailor,” by eastriver: “Not doctored, I think… Mystic Seaport’s Joseph Conrad, ex- Georg Stag; a very small ship, small enough that she would fit under the BB. Alan Villiers’ old ride.”
March 10, 2022 at 6:40 pm
Ned Lloyd
I am reasonably certain Joseph Conrad has not left Mystic Seaport since she arrived.
March 8, 2022 at 2:24 pm
tugster
From a reliable source: “the Dorothy McA is towing the 3/4th size replica clipper ship Flying Cloud.” In the summer of 1966, the ship was towed from Meteghan NS to Newburyport MA. Where and when it was towed from Newburyport is unknown to me. https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1966/07/29/121728348.html?pageNumber=62
March 8, 2022 at 2:27 pm
tugster
Here’s more: http://www.comity.org/Reflections_folio2_link_Flying_Cloud.htm
March 10, 2022 at 6:36 pm
Ned Lloyd
As far as I can remember (back to about 1970) Wavertree was always in her current color scheme. Despite the color, the ship in question is absolutely not Wavertree. There are many differences between their hulls.
During the 70’s South Street Seaport also had the ships “Peking” and “Mosholu”. Again, the ship in question is neither of them as they are four masted.
The East River bridges were all built to clear any sailing ship.
March 10, 2022 at 6:44 pm
Ned lloyd
I was mistaken about the Brooklyn Bridge being high enough for all sailboat masts, it certainly is not.